House prices
Anyone here ever done or know about container houses?
Always thought that could be a go. Get the container/s all decked out in Indo, then fill will furniture and ship back to oz, the finish here on block.
indo-dreaming wrote:Optimist wrote:The figures are correct, it’s a fibro house quote don’t forget.….i live on the mid north/ north coast of nsw which is different to you poor buggers that live in Victoria.
We have good tradesman average joes that work for $500 a day each here.
Raft slab $120 a metre laid.
I had a quote for all trusses and frames stood by a licenced chippie including crane for $3700…it’s a 2 day job.
…Fibro from Bunnings 2.7 x 1.2 m is $ 41 a sheet to clad….all trusses, 90mm frames, roofing, gutters and facias all up $28000 including all sundries delivered as a package….roofers and chippies $500 a day each.
I did this to show battlers they can build a Barry basic fibro home on a somewhere quiet block with no covenants cheap…
Do the owner build course, it’s easy …hire your own trades and you’ll save a mint.
Paint fibro with a product like dulux acratex render….waterproof it first.
Add council fees and your draftsman/ govt . portal consultant.Yeah okay i still think you are being quite optimistic (hence your name) cost always blow out, especially with decent finishes inside like bathrooms & kitchen's, flooring and if add on cost of things like decks etc plus all other cost, plans/drawings, permits, hooking up water, sewerage, electricity etc
But yeah there probably is advantages to building in a warmer climate cost wise, for instance in Victoria getting our high energy rating needed now mostly for heating is quite expensive, it's very hard to get the rating without using double glazed windows which are quite expensive if decent quality.
If i was to build the cheapest place possible, it would be pretty much be a rectangle box with a skillion roof with outriggers, the roof running all at one angle, no eave sheets, no fascias/bargeboards, cuts down cost in materials and labour and actually looks quite good if done right.
Then no roof trusses just LVL's you can even put them up with one person, no need to order trusses or crane in anything and gives you a nice high raked ceiling inside making a smaller house feel larger than it is.
And then clad all of it in zinculum or colorbond sheets, cheap and quick to do and no need for painting.
kinda in this style, although I dont like the window placements of this place, id spend a bit extra and have a few double sliding doors at the front so can open things up onto a deck area, but you get the idea.
these style houses are everywhere , they look good IMO, and if windows are positioned offer great cross flow of breezes,
the hardest part is getting the funding from the banks to go owner builder , even if you hold a licence its still hard to get the $$ as the banks see it as a high ish risk .
andy-mac wrote:Anyone here ever done or know about container houses?
Always thought that could be a go. Get the container/s all decked out in Indo, then fill will furniture and ship back to oz, the finish here on block.
Unless you do Mods to Walls Always Limited by Width of 2.4 M
Qne Way Containers are Cheap - Brand New 1 Trip + Transport - Crane Etc = $
Would prob still have to be Framed out internally to Code as with Plumbing and Elec Signed off - Dosent Add up to me $ Wise.
Reminded me of Red Island Joint
https://www.airbnb.com.au/rooms/39107524?adults=1&children=0&infants=0&c...
udo wrote:andy-mac wrote:Anyone here ever done or know about container houses?
Always thought that could be a go. Get the container/s all decked out in Indo, then fill will furniture and ship back to oz, the finish here on block.Unless you do Mods to Walls Always Limited by Width of 2.4 M
Qne Way Containers are Cheap - Brand New 1 Trip + Transport - Crane Etc = $
Would prob still have to be Framed out internally to Code as with Plumbing and Elec Signed off - Dosent Add up to me $ Wise.
Reminded me of Red Island Joint
https://www.airbnb.com.au/rooms/39107524?adults=1&children=0&infants=0&c...
Cheers Udo...
andy-mac wrote:Anyone here ever done or know about container houses?
Always thought that could be a go. Get the container/s all decked out in Indo, then fill will furniture and ship back to oz, the finish here on block.
Shed houses as well
Pretty Sure its Same Deal- To Get it Thru as a Dwelling - Has to Meet Building Code as in Framed - Lined ETC.
After WW2 the Australian government housed returning servicemen and their young families in Nissen huts at places like Camp Pell in the Royal Park gardens in Melbourne. At the same time State governments were building 1,000s of housing ministry houses in new metropolitan suburbs close to manufacturing, again in Melbourne in places like Sandringham, Frankston, Broadmeadows and West Heidelberg. Regional centres also like the Latrobe Valley etc. Sometime in the 1970s this public housing stock was sold off to the tenants. It was relatively easy back then to get programs like that off the ground given the availability of land close to the CBDs. These days nothing is easy but building new houses on existing urban fringes isn’t the answer IMO. We need to infill within existing boundaries
udo wrote:Pretty Sure its Same Deal- To Get it Thru as a Dwelling - Has to Meet Building Code as in Framed - Lined ETC.
Udo & others. I’m about to start my container conversion within the guidelines of the Surf Coast Shire.
I doesn’t need building code for its interior lining because the containers rigid Coreten walls and roof are already rated for load, especially when you can stack them on a ship three high.
What must be ticked off is the wiring layout and fit off, especially if selling a completed conversion to a consumer.
For my own, everything is 12V anyway, refrigerator, LED lights etc being powered by wind and solar with energy stored in a 120AH Lithium battery, it’s quite simple.
A composting toilet and my own water tank finalises compliance. Code is concerned about power and human waste.
If a client wants to purchase one completed you simply have plumbing outlets capped for them to then transport to a set location and join or connect plumbing to whatever system they require , be it septic or into the local sewer system, again, it’s easy. AW
I’m not a big fan of the corrugated iron look but it sure is functional. I’d prefer the thicker blue board fibro and render.
If you’re keen on a shed house and want a cheap start then it’s best to pour a proper house slab and put in at least 600mm frames between the main frame.
That way you can live in the shed for a few years and apply to council to convert it to a house at a later date. Not much extra cost to ensure that council will pass it later on as an actual house. The slab has to be load bearing for a house.
Optimist wrote:I’m not a big fan of the corrugated iron look but it sure is functional. I’d prefer the thicker blue board fibro and render.
If you’re keen on a shed house and want a cheap start then it’s best to pour a proper house slab and put in at least 600mm frames between the main frame.
That way you can live in the shed for a few years and apply to council to convert it to a house at a later date. Not much extra cost to ensure that council will pass it later on as an actual house. The slab has to be load bearing for a house.
Blue board and render will have joint cracks in it after a while no matter how well the joints are taped FYI
CMC wrote:Optimist wrote:I’m not a big fan of the corrugated iron look but it sure is functional. I’d prefer the thicker blue board fibro and render.
If you’re keen on a shed house and want a cheap start then it’s best to pour a proper house slab and put in at least 600mm frames between the main frame.
That way you can live in the shed for a few years and apply to council to convert it to a house at a later date. Not much extra cost to ensure that council will pass it later on as an actual house. The slab has to be load bearing for a house.Blue board and render will have joint cracks in it after a while no matter how well the joints are taped FYI
✅AW
I think you use a metal mesh on blue board before rendering (not sure) and I’d use an acrylic render. The sikaflex you use on control joints in concrete etc may work too especially for repairing it if there’s a crack.
blue board looks horrible no matter how well you try , eps foam and render much better,
When I was a young fella, there was a great book called” Shelter”…pretty inspirational if you can get your hands on a copy….all kinds of homes all kinds of ways of building one.
Yeah blue board rendered always seems to crack or lift at the joins and it needs to rendered properly to look good which is a bit of an art form .
Id expect it would probably help glueing and screwing the sheets instead of just nailing. (always see nails popping)
100% "eps foam and render much better" and great insulation, but not cheap.
Personally i think blue board or just cement sheets looks better just painted but with treated timber battens(or even thick cement sheet strips) over the joins (sikaflex joins before nailing to seal real good) kinda that new take on an old school fibro coastal thing.
Like this
That’s the go…that’s great…the fibro shack re imagined and still cheap.
Blue board is rubbish, cracks on the joins and leaks water.
indo-dreaming wrote:Yeah blue board rendered always seems to crack or lift at the joins and it needs to rendered properly to look good which is a bit of an art form .
Id expect it would probably help glueing and screwing the sheets instead of just nailing. (always see nails popping)
100% "eps foam and render much better" and great insulation, but not cheap.
Personally i think blue board or just cement sheets looks better just painted but with treated timber battens(or even thick cement sheet strips) over the joins (sikaflex joins before nailing to seal real good) kinda that new take on an old school fibro coastal thing.
Like this
You’d be forever painting that and fixing the cover strips, especially in those dark colours.
1,000,000 homes …that’s what we need asap. And there’s a way to do it.
Create the $100,000 block and sell them to local families in each region.
If you have a target and a plan you will achieve it with the right motive.
The people don’t need charity ,just affordability.
Eg…the FEDERAL GOVT. buys unused farmland in outer areas of all regions.
They turn it into 1/2 acre blocks with power and water NOT sewerage which is the hard part….so the blocks are 2000 sq metres…power and water are easy.
These blocks will come in well under $100k and on average around $70k serviced.
Daggy 100 acre farms (and they are everywhere) land at let’s say $1,000,000 each divided into 1/2 acre lots = 200 blocks @ $5000 each cost to govt…Govt can rezone simply and override stubborn councils.
Plus services and access road average $55,000 per block finished ( no sewer).
All blocks have on site wastewater management systems paid for by the purchaser…..eg…Taylex system etc…these use 400 sq metres and make a nice lawn.
No pollution to waterways etc….they cost about $12000.
That leaves 1600 sq metres to make a home….3 tall carbon eating trees compulsory per block….food growing encouraged.
Blocks to be purchased by working locals in each area who own no other real estate with families a priority.
Banks will jump at financing these on virtually no deposit so govt makes a profit quickly and uses that profit for things like social housing for elderly.
1,000,000 homes get built fast and the rental market frees up fast.
Govt could also start owner builder workshops through tafe.
This cost to the govt after an initial startup fund is $0….they actually make money.
They get everything back and fast so it costs nothing to build 1,000,000 homes.
It’s all about the sewer…..remove that problem and you can go nuts.
The people will love you and housing will be solved as any working local can afford a block at that price and that’s the key….affordability….smaller mortgages .
Also no covenants….let people build a little fibro energy efficient home if they wish.
Not that hard…is it.
Get a vision….and the rest works itself out.
tubeshooter wrote:Cool link VJ.
"I suspect the hut is an archetype and as such speaks to many of us symbolically, in the language of poetry, in metaphor, contradictions and paradox. Simplicity, separateness and ephemerality are its essence". Dianne Johnson .. (from link)I feel way more comfortable and at home in the old fibro and/or tin shacks than any modern built home.
From a while back in thread: yeah me too Tubeshooter. There's something timeless about them. Also love the mid century modernist houses, just the humble ones say 2 or 3brm, as grew up in a few of them as we moved around for Dad's work. Lots of light as of good aspect and those bigger windows to harvest it.
ashsam wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:It's kind of weird cause i know what you mean PD the old fibro houses you could pretty much kick a hole in the wall easily they were very thin and brittle, but lots of cladding products that are now made of cement sheet type material are actually quite strong and they a quite good in regard to fire ratings etc, but most aren't cheap unless just generic flat no frills fibro cement sheets.
The old asbestos fibro was way tougher than what you buy now, it's soft brittle in comparison.
I wouldn't put fibro or any hardies products from Bunnings on a dog kennel.
Colorbond is ok but makes your house look like a shed if you do the whole house. Also marks/scratches easily, get's hot, everytime a hail storm hits a town all the roofs get replaced, walls would be no different.I have business that does away with all that and painting.
Yeah, the azzy fibro had chrysotile, crocidolite or amosite asbestos through it for the most. It was a tough (and a bit fireproof substance). Crocidolite was the blue fibres, very needle-like, chrysotile was white and wavy - occasionally green tinge. Really useful and tougher than what replaced it - circa 1987? Not nice on the lungs though when exposed, ground, unsealed, brought into air etc. Once visited a mine where one of these ran as a vein through the ore, got to marvel over the area that was for tailings, 10s of sq kms of ground azzy dust wasteland...
btw Opti, that's a fantastic series of posts over the last couple of pages, well done. Thank you Indo for chipping in too. Our apprentice is now 4th year so shall show him. Anything is possible!
The Ms has one question: what about councils and council restrictions on building type - Opti was that a thing you encountered?
Hello
What great work this thread has been up 2 , while I nodded off !
Opti , great Plan and The Future Fund would LOVE 2 Fund it .
Encourages people to not move into City Centres 2 .
Could be done quickly and should be an Election Issue !
Smart , sensible and creative Australians sharing ingenuity !
Tiger stuff and put a Tiger in pops Tank , 4 sure .
I hope the Planning Ministers are surfers and are taking notes 2 !
I wants answers 2 VJ's Ms good fn question , asap , nearly :) !
I could check with my mate in the Byron Shire , but they don't like or need this stuff , so a waste of time imho .
Then we need to help all the Builders ( funding ) , build Stuff again , like the good old days !
Not building Pink Batts , so its got 2B good !
Yep Vote 1 Opti!
Indo I love that corrugated wall place too, very nice indeed on a budget.
Great discussion here but let’s face the reality; we’re all middle aged to older men discussing the most frugal living arrangements. Proposing some of the above to our wives as a long term solution is risking a divorce.
Dunno, she taught me to shoot and ride motorbikes - country girl. She'd be on board with building all this, she'd love it.
VJ I don’t think councils have any trouble with fibro houses as you see hardi plank weatherboard ones everywhere ( people call them the hamptons look..ha ha ha.) so sheets should be fine as well …those cover strip homes look great.
It’s all about achieving the energy ratings so waterproofing, vapour barriers and batts in the walls etc.
It’s the developers that want brick covenants etc as they think their estate will look more upmarket…..blah…..
So buy where your free to build anything , any size or run it by council first and mostly you can dodge the stupid covenants….my rural estate area is brick only and I’ve seen two fibro Hardie weatherboard ones built no worries at all.
A trick to get through basix easy is don’t show anything that uses power on your plans like fans, air cons , heaters etc etc…just show an empty shell with good ventilation…make sure a 6.6 kw solar is on your plan too and a decent tank feeding the dunnies and laundry…
That'll crush the figures and you’ll be ok…it’s all a stupid energy points system designed by city people who have never built anything…
…..he said cynically….
Add what you like after your home is passed….even council guys say to do it that way.
Sounds like you can actually build relatively cheaply in Aus, land cost being the stumbling block? So much red tape and such expensive building materials over here, that it's getting very tricky.
I can wholeheartedly recommend building your own house if it's at all feasible. I did it ~2005, and it was fucken hard but very worthwhile.
Depends where IB, SW Sydney you can get in for around the high 400s, or mid 500s. Similar up around the Central Coast (depends where here, big area). Melbourne up North or West fringes I think similar to that. In cheaper cities like Adelaide, you can still get in for around $200k up in the North (endless developments here).
These are generally cheaper areas and top of the range is in seven figures. I know a lot of people who bought in these cheaper areas and they have a good life.
velocityjohnno wrote:Dunno, she taught me to shoot and ride motorbikes - country girl. She'd be on board with building all this, she'd love it.
Oh yeah, mine too is super keen. We built our own house with our own hands. She'll do the lot, place reo, screed concrete...But she'll tell me to f.... off if I ask her to build and live in a 2 bedroom fibro house. She won't waste her time on that but she'll do it for the right design.
Optimist wrote:A trick to get through basix easy is don’t show anything that uses power on your plans like fans, air cons , heaters etc etc…just show an empty shell with good ventilation…make sure a 6.6 kw solar is on your plan too and a decent tank feeding the dunnies and laundry…
That'll crush the figures and you’ll be ok…it’s all a stupid energy points system designed by city people who have never built anything…
…..he said cynically….
Add what you like after your home is passed….even council guys say to do it that way.
Optimist if I were you I'd copyright this line of text right now and become a building consultant. The most practical advice anyone "not in the know" should have. It's like the old skinning a cat proverb!!
Optimist wrote:VJ I don’t think councils have any trouble with fibro houses as you see hardi plank weatherboard ones everywhere ( people call them the hamptons look..ha ha ha.) so sheets should be fine as well …those cover strip homes look great.
It’s all about achieving the energy ratings so waterproofing, vapour barriers and batts in the walls etc.
It’s the developers that want brick covenants etc as they think their estate will look more upmarket…..blah…..
So buy where your free to build anything , any size or run it by council first and mostly you can dodge the stupid covenants….my rural estate area is brick only and I’ve seen two fibro Hardie weatherboard ones built no worries at all.
A trick to get through basix easy is don’t show anything that uses power on your plans like fans, air cons , heaters etc etc…just show an empty shell with good ventilation…make sure a 6.6 kw solar is on your plan too and a decent tank feeding the dunnies and laundry…
That'll crush the figures and you’ll be ok…it’s all a stupid energy points system designed by city people who have never built anything…
…..he said cynically….
Add what you like after your home is passed….even council guys say to do it that way.
Excellent, thanks Opti we've just done a shed to the kind of efficiency & waterproofing level you mention, makes it sound doable! The way you describe how to build the place is like buying a new car and getting all the accessories at the 1st service haha
The fibro house isn’t the only cheap way to build…we only started that chat as a way of getting people into a little home cheap.
Core filled besser is a great home too as is double brick. You can get bricks and blocks cheap and slap a coat of render paint on for a finished look.
The beauty of building with these two is the bricklayer builds your house up to the trusses putting the windows and doors in as they go…very energy efficient.
Sit down with a beer and watch your house go up….well sort of….one can dream.
That’s about as easy as it gets….put on the trusses and roof and you’re good to go.
You can baton besser with H2 pine and gyprock it too inside. Those double brick or concrete type houses are nice and cool inside and warm up well in winter with the fireplace….they are tough too and pretty fireproof..
Lots of ways to build fairly easy…work with what you’ve got and find a solution…treat big debt like death…
Nothing wrong with a two bed fibro shack to get started in life or in reverse…..downsize to a simple home and cash in.
If you’re a young guy reading this ….choose a missus who loves the simple things in life……then you can go surfing sometimes instead of killing yourself overworking for a crazy mortgage….
…….“ and the man in the suit has just bought a new car from the profit he’s made on your dreams”……Steve Winwood…….traffic.
flollo wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:Dunno, she taught me to shoot and ride motorbikes - country girl. She'd be on board with building all this, she'd love it.
Oh yeah, mine too is super keen. We built our own house with our own hands. She'll do the lot, place reo, screed concrete...But she'll tell me to f.... off if I ask her to build and live in a 2 bedroom fibro house. She won't waste her time on that but she'll do it for the right design.
Ah a question of taste. You guys did it well. I think my ideal might be the modernist beach house (not architectual) while my Ms would probably go for the farm homestead. It could be fun to do a very simple one like mentioned upthread too. Our young one likes working timber more than drilling into metal frames, he gets pissed with that after a while - dunno if Indo's corrugated simple house above is metal frame or not. But anyway with 3 of us able to do things, could be fun. Over a few years it's possible to 'Amish' up houses for all the kids, for example.
velocityjohnno wrote:Also love the mid century modernist houses, just the humble ones say 2 or 3brm, as grew up in a few of them as we moved around for Dad's work. Lots of light as of good aspect and those bigger windows to harvest it.
VJ mid century modern is such clever architecture. This is a place we bought 2 months back and the more you live in it the more you see how clever this architecture is. Lots of glass, timber and surprisingly very clever ventilation details.
That's nice!
I really like that Gary! Something about the windows and framing, mix of textures, semi split room in the kitchen, great! Our place faces the winter sun and has the big full length open windows and single level sloping roof, much like these designs, though it was built later.
Slight tangent from the conversation above, however in regards to housing architecture and styles, a house in our street was recently sold and demolished. No great surprise as it was a flimsy fibro and corrugated iron number, and it was sitting on a large, near-1,500 sq/m block.
Figured it was either gonna be a Sydney buyer who'd replace it with some version of Bank Vault Chic, or divvied up by a developer.
During construction I was surprised to see a new house go in with a style sympathetic to the existing built environment, set back the same amount as other houses, same angle to the street, and similar style too with weatherboard and peaked roof.
It's now finished and when I drive into the street it's hard to tell it's a new house. In this regard it's a huge outlier to what's been happening elsewhere on this coast where knockdowns and fuck you-McMansions are becoming the norm. The notion of modesty and fitting in seemingly antiquated, but at least it still exists for a few people.
That's wonderful Stu. There's a block on our street that would love to buy, and it has a very modest weekender still on it. Would want to keep it that way. So simple with large block. +1 for 'bank vault chic' - those houses are fubar.
I was just about to post this one up, 152m2, humble, beautiful, blending into the countours of it's block, look at that sloping back yard which would be fun for kids to play in. Lots of light through the windows, and sun seems to come in at the back as well.
https://www.archivesmodaustralia.com/2019/11/41-fisher-ave-sandy-bay-tas/
Love it, VJ. Lots of space outside, and also inside around the fireplace.
Windows and glass seem expensive but when you think about it, you get a lot of nice pre made wall for your money easily dropped into a frame.
P.s…love surfing rags.
I like it IB - I can see the texture themes, the full length windows, inside/outside merge, and yet it is updated for today (not sophisticated enough to describe how the use of furniture/materials takes the modernism into today, but I can 'see' it)
Hey Stu - question - is there a surfboard design equivalent of the mid century modernism? Doesn't have to be of the same precise time, but more the intangibles of it, maybe the humbleness, working with nature ('light' in the case of housing); maybe a way of doing the shape like with the fully soft flying saucer rails of the old mals for example, or maybe it is something like when boards become widely available to everyone... getting esoteric I know
This is the place I built back in 2005, on the smell of an oily rag (NZ$105k),
oh wow that's so good! Well done IB!
Had a decent view too
Optimist wrote:I’m not a big fan of the corrugated iron look but it sure is functional. I’d prefer the thicker blue board fibro and render.
If you’re keen on a shed house and want a cheap start then it’s best to pour a proper house slab and put in at least 600mm frames between the main frame.
That way you can live in the shed for a few years and apply to council to convert it to a house at a later date. Not much extra cost to ensure that council will pass it later on as an actual house. The slab has to be load bearing for a house.
Ran the thread past the young one, a question Opty - with the 600mm frames in the shed. Young one reckoned they do 450 in houses and 600 would be as far as you would want to space them for load reasons - I was thinking a shed construction would have wider studs (I think that's the term) and by going 600 that creates a more robust frame than the shed would otherwise have (and 450 even better) so easily passes when upgrading to a house - am I right?
Also young one reckons Indo is on the money too, he reckons you can build cheaply to those prices especially if you are willing to put most of the labour in. Re: the trades from big builders, some of the guys take pride in their work and some go as quick as possible, so you would want to have a good eye for construction to see if it's all straight, if the joins are the correct type etc.
I'll be off to look for sloping blocks now...
Island Bay wrote:Had a decent view too
Was working down in Tassie at about the same time as you built, the places and vistas we found, at those prices...
Amazing stuff IB, it's like you got there before it all became too cool... :)
House prices - going to go up , down or sideways ?
Opinions and anecdotal stories if you could.
Cheers